Why Your Kids Don't Care About God
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How the church has turned the most powerful story ever told into a fairy tale
Have you ever wondered why children have problems when they are older taking their faith seriously and treating it as a relevant part of their lives?
Of course you have. Christians have been buzzing the word “relevant” since the dawn of Stryper. Questions like, “How do we make our teenagers care about their faith?” and, “Why won’t they take this seriously?”
Have you ever wondered why they stopped caring in the first place?
It came to me after church one Sunday. Walking out to the car, with the sun exploding off the brightly paved parking lot, I was asking my nine year old sister about her time in Sunday School that morning.
“How was your class?” I asked.
“It was ok.”
“What did you learn?”
She hesitated for a while and I could see her mind grappling for the answer she knew she should have. Nothing.
“What did you do?” I asked.
“Well we colored and we had snacks and we did a craft too.”
“Sounds fun,” I said smiling.
“Yeah,” she said with eyebrows compensating for something she couldn’t quite communicate yet. “But I wish they would teach us something.”
Bam. Right between the eyes. I wasn’t sure what it was, but I knew something hit me. Words much heavier than either of us realized got my mind reeling.
I posted some general comments on Facebook about this one day, not really knowing exactly how I felt or what my conflicting thoughts meant. The next day there was a message in my inbox from a friend of mine who taught a Sunday School class for 3-5 year-olds.
It went a little something like this:
“So every Sunday when I'm teaching Sunday School, I think, I sound like I'm telling my kids a fictional story. Might as well be reading mother goose. Of course, I'm still a little bitter. I grew up in the church and was brought up on Noah's Ark and Jonah in that whale's lil’ tummy, and, honestly, its hard to take those stories seriously even still sometimes. Literally, there are times when I have to stop reading the Bible and tell myself, this actually happened, because it still seems so whimsical to. Those stories don't have the impact they should, because I've heard them so much that the weight of how great and powerful God really is hardly hits me. How do you think we should introduce the Bible to kids?”
How, indeed.
But that was when I began to think I might have hit on something. That it was not, in fact, just me thinking these things. Uh oh.
After giving it some thought, I’ve come to believe that the problem might be two-fold.
We'll call them the inception and the perpetuation, respectively.
The Inception of the Mother Goose God
The first problem is what I’ve already hinted at. We introduce God’s story in the tried-and-true tradition of nursery rhyme. Kids love those things! Might as well slip them in right alongside Dr. Seuss, Erik Carl, and Shel Silverstein. Sure those guys have better illustrations, but that’s not the point.
We give them God in the context that we think they relate to the best. Simple stories. Colorful pages. Rhyming songs.
But, we are all human after all. Really nothing we can do about that. And an unfortunate side effect is that we want to make things we don’t understand fit into the context of things we do. We do this all the time as adults. We constantly prescribe limiting, human qualities to help us understand why God is the way that He is, why prayers aren’t answered the way we expect, and why our timing never seems to be His. We forget about the mystery and that God is not limited by perspective and linear time. Luckily, most of us have church leaders who remind us that we are wrong in these assumptions—that we cannot simplify and should not try to over-explain. So we slap ourselves on the wrist and say, no. We say we cannot allow ourselves to put God into a box. He is too big, and when we try to explain too much, we reduce.
So why, I ask you, when it comes to our kids are we comfortable doing it?
We cannot change and reduce the message of scripture to accommodate children. They need the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We should not filter, withhold, or spoon feed scripture, I don’t care how young little Timmy is. Sound harsh? Yeah, I know, I just cringed a little myself.
But it’s this verse that is keeping me from the delete button:
Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put [his] hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:13-14
The Kingdom of heaven for kids? All of it? Why didn’t Jesus say, “Yes, kids, I am the son of God. But there are some things you can’t yet understand. You will be ready when you are older”? Because that is not true. The Kingdom of heaven and all that it contains is made for our kids. Wowzer.
Why did the disciples not want the children to come to Jesus? Maybe they thought his messages were too sophisticated for them, maybe too radical. Regardless, people did not consider the person of Jesus something accessible to the mind or heart of a child. The translation in Mark says that Jesus was troubled by their response to the children. With all of the similarities between the disciples' shortcomings and the church today, I am not inclined to believe that we have progressed much in the mastery of this concept either. The phrasing of that verse seems pretty crucial. "Let the children come to me." With no physical Jesus here today, what is this verse suggesting?
Prayer. Communion. True, full, and uninhibited relationship. And I say prayer not meaning the, “now I lay me down to sleep" kind. Because as cute and adorable as that is I don't think it really qualifies. Overcoming this innocent little rhyme was the biggest obstacle in my working out a healthy prayer life. I think this is where we go wrong. We don't think children have the capacity for anything other than rhyming words. We don’t think they will care unless we make it bright and colorful for them.
I can see some tentative hands of protest. You think the nursery rhymes end after little Timmy grows out of the nursery, out of the toddlers, and into the ranks of the older kids.
Sure, teachers have packed away the finger puppets and coloring books, but what has taken their place? From the very start we equate learning scripture with entertainment, and the charade must go on. And on it goes. So there goes big Timmy, off to youth group—the Xboxing, worship concerting, Mountain Dewing, skateboarding, ping-ponging utopia of our culturally relevant church. And, oh yeah, they do a bible study too.
Sigh.
It’s Pavlov all over again. Just say the word “church” and we salivate for entertainment, an anecdote, some sort of diversion.
Please do not mishear. None of those things I mentioned above is wrong. I play in a worship band, and I love Mountain Dew and Ping-Pong as much as the next guy. But what I cannot stand for is that the teaching of God’s word has become secondary to and dependent upon these things. As if God isn’t good enough, satisfying enough, captivating enough to stand on His own. As if we have to work at making God relevant.
We are the disciples all over again, pulling the children away from Jesus and giving them a version we think that they will better understand and relate to.
We think we are supplementing, but in many cases what we are doing is chipping away. Subtraction by addition. Smaller and smaller it gets. And it all starts when our kids get their first view of Jesus on a felt board—amorphous, smiling, fuzzy Jesus.
Let the children go to Him. Teach your kids the important things. Teach them what is central and base to our belief. As thrilling as Jonah and the Whale is, and as important of a story as it is, it will only be a fairy tale to a child who has no personal grounding in the reality of Christ. No understanding of why the story is so important.
So I don’t think the issue is how do we make the miracles of Jesus seem more believable, but how do we instill an understanding of Christ that gives a child his or her own personal appreciation of the magnificence of the scripture. Because that is when Jonah and the Whale becomes a truly powerful story.
Don't be afraid to be real with your children. Share your heart. Make sure you are in the presence of God before you try to teach and let the Spirit lead. Children don't deserve any less because we falsely assume they can't understand it.
And remember this. God says scripture makes sense to no man apart from the gift of wisdom given by his spirit.
Your mind is no more equipped to understand the deep mysteries of scripture than a child’s. And to think otherwise only argues the opposite. Don't shortchange your kids by regurgitating something you could recite in your sleep. Give them a chance to experience something real. Something important and fundamental.
And remind them that all of the stories and lessons are nothing apart from their personal time with God. Teach them to pray. Not to ask, but to listen. To seek God's heart. Jesus is not just a cute character in a story. He lived and breathed. He wept and bled and struggled. Jesus wants to tell our children His story if you would just let them go to Him.
The Perpetuation and The Great Dichotomy That Ensues
The second problem I’ve arrived at goes out to you, parents. And I daresay it is even more critical than the first.
A lot of parents today seem to have fallen into this thinking that the responsibility of teaching their children the foundations of faith can be delegated away from themselves. And this responsibility has shifted, incidentally, to the Sunday Schools and youth groups like the ones we’ve just talked about. See a circle forming? But this tendency of parents is the fault line where the whole faith/reality dichotomy begins. Children leave their homes to learn about Jesus for an hour or two and then come home to play with friends, watch TV, etc. The problem here is that faith is siphoned off to a separate compartment of life so that as it grows, it grows only there, in some increasing fantasy land until it is so far removed from reality it's almost laughable.
Have you ever noticed how people, and I’m talking about Christians, become so uncomfortable talking about spiritual issues outside of a church setting? I know you've probably seen it, but if you don’t believe me then I propose the following experiment:
One day, while you’re talking with a friend, just mention in the midst of casual conversation something that you feel God has spoken to you about or some thoughts you've been wrestling with in scripture. And then watch very closely their reaction. Most people will begin to squirm in their seats, shuffle their feet a little, and suddenly the conversation screeches to a halt.
Why? Because God has not been fostered within the context of reality. God talk happens in the church, and practical talk happens everywhere else.
The job of church, even for kids, is to reinforce and equip. If it comprises the entirety of a person's, even a child's, spiritual experience, we are perpetuating a big, big problem. Namely, that God exists on a level completely disassociated with what we consider everyday experience. And seriously, children are not idiots. They are capable of comprehending way more than adults give them credit for. Granted, there is an age where things must be simplified, but we have to learn better where that line is.
Even my nine-year-old sister started realizing how juvenile it all was. She wanted to learn. So she left and started going with my parents to their class where she was finally being fed and growing. Faith should not be so easily disassociated and distilled.
It's all just one big watered down mess in a lot of ways. I am not here to be cynical, but needless to say I have more questions than answers. But even if I’m not able to supply an adequate answer, these are issues that we should all at least ponder over.
Think about it, pray about it, dig into scripture in search of answers for it, and if you are satisfied with how your child is learning scripture, then wonderful! If you still send your child to Sunday School and they are learning great things, fantastic! I am not here to say that you should yank your kids from their Sunday School classes and cram Bonhoeffer down their throats. I simply think it is something too important to take for granted.
But remember this, parents. If you want your children to take their faith seriously, then you have to foster that. Show them a living God and no cartooned one will be able to make less of Him.
If you wish to do some further research, here are some links to help get you started:
- Robert Raikes and How We Got Sunday School - Church History and Timeline - Christianity.com
A brief history on Sunday School. Where it began, why it began, and how it spread.
- Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics
Very good resource for parents and children alike seeking Biblical answers to difficult questions.
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Hi emichael :)
I read Titen-Sxull's hub, as well, before commenting.
I think that this is a very well-written and logical hub, but I cannot agree with the content.
I agree with Titen-Sxull that there is way too much in the Bible that is really really unpleasant ~ too unpleasant for children.
When my children were given a children's bible, as a gift, I was stunned at how nasty the content was ~ and I would not let them see it.
But nastiness apart, my childhood scripture lessons and Sunday School lessons were not like those you describe, emichael. They were very serious and educational.
But I still lost my faith. It started when I was about 12. As you say, stories like that of Jonah and the whale are simply unbelievable
I am agnostic and find most of the Bible hard to believe.
So it may not be anything to do with colouring pictures, etc, which is what young children do ~ whatever the topic and however real or unreal it may be.
Thank you both for your responses.
Titen, I have read your hub, and you bring up some very good issues. Many that I've wrestled through myself. And still do, I admit. I'd like to take some time to think it over and respond.
Trish, some of your comments on the "nastiness" of scripture might be answered when I respond to Titen. I realize this hub sounds a bit like I am saying that as long as you don't trivialize scripture, you will have a child that does not stray from their faith. I should have clarified that I don't believe this is always the case. Trish, I don't know what you're family life was like in regards to reinforcing and promoting Christianity, but even if you're parents were firm believers, a child is an individual with their own thoughts and their own free will. And as such, faith in Jesus is theirs to reject, if they choose.
As a believer myself, I hold to biblical principal that the words of the bible appear as foolishness to non-believers. So I'm not surprised or put off by the arguments I hear against it. And really there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. You have more knowledge than I could hope to give you. All that I can do is encourage you to never stop seeking the truth and asking the questions.
Because faith is the center of my life, I can't help but hurt for those who seem to have rejected it. I'm not going to thump you over the head with scripture, but I do want to encourage you to pray and seek earnestly. Because I believe that if you do, one day God will reveal truth to you. I hope you don't take offense to that, but as I say, I can't help but want to share what I believe is of the utmost importance.
Just for my own information, as an agnostic do you doubt or deny the existence of God? I've always been a little unsure about the term, and the definition seem to vary.
And really, thank you for your honest and respectful response. I think it's important that people with opposite worldviews can talk openly and honestly with each other about important issues like this. I welcome and look forward to your future comments!
And goodness, I should have picked an easier topic for my very first hub!!
:)
Hi emichael :)
Thanks for the reply and welcome to the community.
I think that it is good to start with a hub that people find interesting :)
'Agnostic' simply means that I don't know. But, yes, there is always going to be more to it than that.
Agnostics, generally, state that they don't know and think that it is impossible to know. However, agnostics also tend to be interested seekers after truth and are, therefore, bound to draw some conclusions along the way.
I do not know whether or not God exists, but, if God does exist, then I do not think that it is along the lines of the Bible ~ or any religious book. I think that these documents record how various peoples have come to terms with the unknown.
I used to believe ~ many years ago. My mother still believes. My late father was a believer, when he was young, but became agnostic around the age of 21. I have to say, I feel a lot more contented as an agnostic. :)
My kids believed when they were young, but, as soon as they were able to rationalise, they became agnostic.
Schools in the UK are not like those in America ~ we don't have separation of church and state, so, in a number of primary schools, Christianity is still accepted as the norm and the kids often just accept it.
Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
Also, I have been enjoying reading your Shakespeare hubs. I'm having to read bits and pieces here and there (at work), so I haven't gotten to finish and comment yet, but I plan to. I took a Shakespeare class in college that made me fall in love with his plays. I have some essays that I might consider turning into a hub or two. Though I'm a little daunted by how good yours are. Did you study Shakespeare in school, or is most of your research self-study?
Couldn't agree with you more! I serve in sunday school. And we actually tried doing Bible discussion for most of the lesson this year. The results were remarkable. When I look at these kids and judging by their questions, I feel like they understand perfectly what we're teaching, and they don't really need teaching aids to "get" the Bible. Your second part of the argument, that parents prefer to outsource education of their kids to anybody, is sadly very true. Sometimes you realize that the short lesson they're getting on Sundays is the only Bible they ever get. And then when we take that hour and replace it with crafts, we're just leaving them with no foundation for life at all.
Glad to see there are people who recognize the problem and are trying to get it right. Thanks for your efforts and your service.
An interesting side note, the whole concept of "sunday school" was started because the unschooled, overworked, and largely orphaned child population of England were getting no education and running wild on the streets. So a guy named Robert Raikes came along and said, since these kids aren't getting the education and influence they should be getting from a home environment (because they have none), I will do something about it. Because of that, crime was drastically reduced and the kids' lives were being transformed. In that sense, it was a remarkable movement, and I thank God for it.
But it's high time we recognize that it should no longer be left entirely up to the church.
Thanks for your comment and welcome to hubpages :)
Hi :)
Yes, Sunday school, here in the UK, was a very positive thing for the poor and needy. They organised trips, parties, charitable aid, all sorts of things, as well as education. Of course, it was mainly Christian ~ but then, the English state was Christian. It still is, officially, even though this is a fairly secular country.
I think that it depends on the age, ability and background of the child, what exactly they can cope with, educationally, whether discussing the scriptures or anything else. I used to enjoy these lessons ~ both at school and Sunday School. I still enjoy discussing the subject.
One of my Christian friends has commented that I have read more of the Bible, and am more interested in it, than many of her Christian friends. She finds that surprising, since I am agnostic.
I have actually worked in a faith school, but I do worry about teaching the Bible to children as 'truth'. Fundamentalist Christians may believe that it is the truth ~ but that does not make it the truth.
When my kids came home from school, telling me that 'something Biblical' had happened, I would say something like: 'Well, yes, that is what Christians believe, but how do we know that it is true? How does your teacher know that this is true? Do you believe it?'
I had no problem with them believing it, if they had thought about it, and accepted it; but not just because the teacher said so ~ and because teachers are always right.
Teachers are in a special place of authority. They should teach kids about religion, but not tell them that it is true.
Of course, I understand that this wouldn't even be legal in American state schools, but, obviously, and understandably, it still happens at Sunday School and in Faith schools. It is bound to happen ~ that is what they are for. But, in my opinion, it is still wrong to teach matters of religious faith as real truth.
As for Shakespeare, I studied his plays, while I was at school ~ many years ago. Then I decided to do an extra A' Level quite recently. I chose English literature. I did more in depth studies of some of his works ~ and various other items. I really enjoyed it and posted some of my discoveries as hubs.
A friend of mine taught children at primary school (5-11 year-olds) here in the UK, to meditate. They would sit in a circle, be taught how to relax, and go deeply inside themselves, maybe with the aid of concentrating on a candle flame or a flower or something. These children reached a depth of prayer unknown to many adults.
What happened?
Parents complained and the teachers were uncomfortable with the concept. It brought up so many groundless fears that it was stopped.
The school went back to nursery rhyme Christianity...
I thought it was Dr. Seuss who wrote the Bible. Didn't Mother Goose just steal a bunch of German folk songs and make them all about cross dressing wolves who chase preteen girls around, and little spoiled children who get thrown in to boiling pots by wart nosed witches.
Now Dr, Seuss there was a true devotee to telling kids how to live. The Cat in the Hat is the best story Jesus ever starred in.
And I also loved him in the Grinch who Stole Christmas. Funny though my King James Bible doesnt seem to have those two stories in it, they must be from the Catholic Apocrypha.
Either way I vote that Dr. Seuss was the best writer of the Bible. He really is a saint. I think maybe we should name something after him.
Keep on Hubbing.
Blake4d
Perhaps it's just me and my puny little brain but if a hub is more than a few paragraphs I lose interest, start skimming and go over the comments. Fortunately I wasn't discerning enough as a child to note the plasticine manner in which Jesus looked on all those crummy posters. It never occurred to me he should be roughed up, laughing or drinking frothily on some grapes of the vine.
I've loved God all my life, was first introduced to the book of psalms in Sunday school and had a Spirit filled revelation in the 9th grade while in church that it didn't matter what those around me did, I knew "this" to be the truth and I would follow "it" with my whole heart and mind and spirit. This was a very good hub, I just have difficulty reading, I'd give it a 100 score were it up to me.
@rockingrector
I will say that most Christians believe the act of meditation to be dangerous for the soul. The Bible teaches and promotes the idea of filling your mind with God's word. Meditation encourages a person to seek peace inwardly rather than in God. Additionally, many believe when you empty your mind you open yourself up to demonic activity.
For others, it is simply the equation of meditation with eastern mysticism that makes them wary.
The Bible does use the term meditation, but not in the sense of an emptying of the mind. Instead, it encourages a believer in deep reflection of the scriptures. Essentially it is a call to look upward to God, not inward to ourselves.
I say that to point out that I can't say the fears of the parents you mention were groundless.
I think it is very important that we help children realize deep faith and rich communion with God. But I can't find anything in scripture that promotes this idea of meditation. It seems, in fact, to point us to the opposite.
I don't intend to be dismissive, this is just what I believe and have found evidence of in scripture.
Your thoughts?
@Carolyn Moe
I know what you mean, I can be a tad ADD with long articles myself :)
I am glad to hear that you had a real encounter with God in spite the Church's often flawed depiction of Him.
Thanks for reading and for your comment :)
Ah, we may differ here. I find God inwards just as much, if not more, than outwards or upwards, therefore I go inwards to connect with God. I don't think I said anything about emptying the mind, more about focusing the mind, and yes, focusing on God, although I may use some object to help me do this. No evidence in scripture? I thought Jesus went away into the mountains for long periods, often all night. I believe most of that time was spent in listening to God rather than talking to him, and how can you listen except if your own mind is still and quiet?
Well, from what I know and have heard taught of meditation, a big part of the practice involves emptying your mind completely. Of course I'm sure there are many adaptations of the traditional practice.
I'm not sure I really understand this dichotomy of inwards and outwards. God will always posses more peace, more understanding, more wisdom that I have within myself. In that sense, I feel that I have to look to Him for more of those things. I.E. outside of myself.
I agree with the idea of quieting your mind of human distractions and trivial worries. Quieting your mind is a necessary part of hearing from God. I deal with this concept some in a hub I wrote (The On and On of Things).
There are only two things that I find dangerous in the practice of meditation.
First is an emptying of the mind. To me, there is a different between a quiet mind and an empty mind. The former is void of human distractions, the latter void of all "distractions" human and spiritual alike. Our spiritual beliefs guard us from satanic manipulation, and to empty even that from our thoughts seems dangerous. It seems to me that what Jesus was doing in his time with God was leaving human distractions behind and allowing the Father to pour wisdom and comfort into him.
Second is this idea of finding God inwards. On one hand you say that you find God better inwards. On the other you say that quieting your mind allows you to hear from God better, suggesting an inward flow from an outward source.
Very good post. I very much enjoyed it, although I would have to say that my Sunday school experience differs from your description. When I was young I don't remember being taught much of scripture stories, although we did learn some of them. By the age of 8 my friends, as well as I had our own set of scriptures and had moved up into what we call "senior primary" and were reading from the new testament and discussing it. I do remember singing songs but they were not about bible stories. The two that are cemented in my mind are "A Child's Prayer" and "I Am a Child of God"
They Go as Such:
I am a child of God,
And he has sent me here,
Has given me an earthly home
With parents kind and dear.
Lead me, guide me, walk beside me,
Help me find the way.
Teach me all that I must do
To live with him someday.
and
Heavenly Father,
are you really there?
and do you hear and answer every child's prayer?
some say that heaven is far away,
but I feel you close around me as I pray.
Heavenly Father,
I remember now,
something that Jesus told disciples long ago,
suffer the children to come to me,
father in prayer I'm coming now to thee.
There were many others but as a child these songs had a great impact on me.
The thing I remember most from my childhood church life was feeling God's love for me and understanding his plan.
I am not a mainstream Christian, so this could be why my experience differs so much from what you have just explained, but either way I agree that Scripture stories are not the most important thing, the focus should be on God.
I apologize for the length of this comment!
Thank you for sharing this, I look forward to reading more of your posts =).
Certainly every church differs in their approach and many are getting it right. Growing up, my experience with church was a little scattered. We went on and off, and we moved a lot so I went to many different ones. But mostly we ended up going to big ones. The first baptists and such. And many times these churches were more concerned with programs and building projects than people and sound doctrine.
I didn't mean to suggest that I don't think any church is doing right by their children's ministry. I'm glad to see you had a good experience. It's so important that kids feel and understand these things on a personal level.
And yes, you are completely right. Scripture stories are secondary. They should be supplemental to a personal understanding and appreciation of God.
Mainstream Christian or not, all that really matters is you love God and follow Jesus.
No apologies needed. I enjoy a good insightful comment and am happy to have you as a follower :)
I couldn't have said it better myself. I believe the reason Christianity isn't taken seriously is that we have pigeon-holed it into a slot that never touches reality. I believe this is the greatest tragedy of our day. It should be relevant to every situation we experience, and if we start responding to everyday situations, injecting God and prayer in appropriate places, people will see that He is indeed, alive and well on Planet Earth, and that He loves us as one-of-a-kind individuals and wants relationship with us. But we have to demonstrate these things and make it as natural as breathing, so that He can show up and move to prove His power. For instance, if someone is in need of healing, and we stop and pray for them right in the WalMart checkout line, we make Him relevant. How else will others know?
Well said, emichael. Thank you for a cutting edge Hub.
It certainly is a tragedy. Compartmentalized faith is not really faith at all. The vicious circle starts so young, it's so important that parents play an active role in their child's spiritual development.
"But we have to demonstrate these things and make it as natural as breathing..."
Yes. And that is the issue that I have. Incorporating spirituality into "everyday situations" shouldn't require effort. It shouldn't have to be a conscious decision. If something is a part of who you are, it comes out in how you act, in how you talk, and in how you treat people.
"...if someone is in need of healing, and we stop and pray for them right in the WalMart checkout line..."
I know people who have had some pretty amazing encounters with others because of their willingness to step out in faith like this. They are constantly challenging and reminding me of what the life of a true Christian should look like.
Thank you for reading and thanks for the insightful comment :)
Excellent hub in both content and writing.
I have struggled with these issues myself as the parent of two. As a child I read a 12 volume set called The Bible Story, which told in detail the Bible in stories for kids. It was not dumbed down, though specifically written for children. I read these stories over and over as a child. As a parent, i began reading a similiarly detailed children's bible to my kids, and got to Cain murdering Abel. My daughter, who was 4 or so, understood the story immediately. One brother beat another brother to death. My daughter is very attached to her older brother, and this story deeply disturbed her. I stopped reading this book b/c i just didn't feel it was productive. As a child, I read all these detailed, violent stories, and I think the experience benefitted both my mind and emotions. The wheels started turning in my mind early on matters of right and wrong, and on the unpredictable nature of life. But it wasn't right for my daughter, at least not at that age.
To balance that, my daughter did learn about the nature of God, probably just from absorbing it. One day at the dinner table she suddenly said, "Do people feel shy when they meet God?" It had nothing to do with the conversation, it was clearly just something she had mulled over. It wasn't so much the words, but the rapt look on her face and the tone of her voice, and I thought, "She knows who God is. I'm not sure how, but she knows."
My kids learned practically nothing in Sunday School. When my son was 14 I casually dropped that he had read the whole bible on his own in the past year. i was feeling guilty for not taking my kids through the bible more systematically, but I realized nobody did that with me. I read it because I was fascinated by it. And then the same thing happened with my son, without me making it happen.
This is getting too long, but I guess I would just say that authentic Christianity in the parent has the best chance of sparking something similar in the child.
Absolutely. They will learn by example.
It's the same principle as evangelism, I think. People use words too much. They talk and talk and yell and preach and condemn. But when it comes to their own lives, there is nothing. And then the ones they are yelling at are left thinking, "I want no part of that."
But when your life is a manifestation of something as divine and wonderful as a personal relationship with God, people will be drawn to it. Same with children. When everything about who you are is a reflection of Christ, it will pour out organically into their understanding and perception.
Your life is a blessing to your children. They will have a healthy understanding of who God is because of how you represent Him.
Thanks so much for your comment :)
Although I'm an atheist, this was a great hub. Very well thought out, researched and written. I think one of the main problems in attempt to teach children anything these days is that we are an instant gratification culture. Kids would probably learn more if Sunday school teachers would just text them the lessons or post it on their facebook.
Very interesting comment about how "god has not been fostered withing the context of reality."
You are right, we do not live within a culture conducive to a healthy teaching environment. This is a big part of the problem.
Thanks, I feel pretty strongly about that point. Confining God to particular areas of a person's existence creates disingenuous faith and hypocritical behavior. I know you are not a christian, but I'm sure you still understand frustration toward those who misrepresent and mishandle something you hold very dear.
Thanks for the comment. I appreciate your insight.
Hi Emichael, many people do recognize the problem. Its tough, especially now more than ever with so many people being hostile to other's beliefs. That aside, your 9 year old sister sounds like she has the right idea. I know of many people, that are trying to dig deep, get to the heart of the matter, the actual points the Bible is trying to make. EVEN with smaller children.
I think a lot has to do with which part of the Bible is being taught. There are so many varying forms of literature in the bible. Each author and book is written to express things in particular. Not all are just history, or poetry, or songs or the gospel.
At the very least, people ought to get more involved, be willing to help, check and see if the church has good doctrines to begin with. Having a firm base, helps one to know they are in the right place. Too many people have gotten too far from the basics, and rely instead on what came after, in history. Sticking with the basic, and being able to answer childrens honest questions as they have them is a good thing too. Thanks for sharing this.
"I know of many people, that are trying to dig deep, get to the heart of the matter..."
I'm with you on that. As much as I have seen wrong with Bible teaching, I have also seen right. It's true, there are a lot of churches and parents who recognize the importance of correct, down to earth, genuine Bible teaching. I hope this article didn't sound too pessimistic. I didn't intend to suggest that no one is doing it right :)
"Each author and book is written to express things in particular."
Absolutely right. This is something I've often seen mishandled as well. The Bible is the inspired word of God, but it was also penned by humans and done so in a particular time, within a specific cultural context and literary practice. We absolutely cannot disregard that.
"At the very least, people ought to get more involved, be willing to help, check and see if the church has good doctrines to begin with."
Yes. It seems a lot of people are under the dangerous impression that, because they are an established church with a nice building and engaging programs, sound doctrine comes automatically as part of the package. Yikes. Not good.
Thanks so much for your insight.
A very well written hub. It's a very interesting area. Similar to Trish I am Agnostic. My children are still very tiny, yet already my 3 year old knows about the baby Jesus and the Christmas story.
My biggest problem is that the bible(to me) has been so misused by polititions and society as a whole that the 'goodness' within it has been rather tainted by the prevailing wars and terror that have ensued over the centuries. I just don't know if I want my child to be taking the bible as 'truth'
It contains some real horrors (I'm thinking particularly about the book of revelation)
Yes I can see your kid sister's point about the patronising way in which it is often taught to kids, yet I think I'd rather have that, than its real content being taught explicitly.
Also children are very suseptible to indoctrination and being empty vessels with no real experience to speak of. I really think that as they become adults, that is the time for them to make informed choices about religion, or at least their faith. (I've written a hub about whether Religious Education should be taught to children at all)
I think your writing style is terrific, I look forward to reading your other hubs
@Talisker - I also wonder about religious education - how and what to teach kids. The early books of the Bible are very violent, and children will react differently. To some i think hearing about child sacrifice and death of children in battle might be traumatizing. These were the facts of life in the ancient world, and in some places in the world today, but that doesn't mean telling your 4 year old all about it is a good idea.
George Barna, a researcher who focuses on Christians and church issues, did a poll about the age people make decisions about faith. He found that 90% of adults who identified themselves as Christians had made that decision before the age of 14. Another 5% decided to commit to Christianity between 14 and 18. That leaves only 5% who made the decision as adults (adults defined as over age 18.) This indicates that people make these decisions quite young. I personally think the approach of the church in intellectualizing the efforts to convert is somewhat misguided. Given the above data, few people are deciding for Christianity because they approved of the intellectual arguments for it. From what i see, it is far more common to have a belief in Jesus first, then a person builds their intellectual world around that, because that is what makes sense to them. I personally think faith is more intuitive and experiential than logic driven - that is what i observe from how people behave.
Given that, I do think some religious education for children is fair to them, as long as it is done in an appropriate way. (Christians used to threaten their children into accepting the faith - a Christian I met recently told me she accepted Jesus at age 4 because her mother told her one night at bedtime if she didn't accept jesus and she died while sleeping she would go to hell and burn in agony forever. Talk about traumatizing your kids.) I tend to be very careful with my kids when it comes to faith. I have a cousin who became an atheist because he realized at one point his parents were mostly using christianity to guilt and control him. He concluded christianity wasn't real, it was just something people used to get their way. I guess i think we do end up giving our kids religious education - though sometimes it is not the education we were intending to give them.
@Talisker
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond, despite our differing views :)
"My biggest problem is that the bible(to me) has been so misused by polititions and society as a whole that the 'goodness' within it has been rather tainted by the prevailing wars and terror that have ensued over the centuries."
I won't disagree with you. Over the years, people have taken truth and the pure message of scripture and manipulated it to their advantage. However, I have a problem when this is used as an argument against its truth or validity.
Whether I believe in God or not does not affect whether or not there is a God. In the same way, whether an individual/group/society/nation correctly or incorrectly understands or uses an idea does not affect the validity of that idea. All that it could possibly hope to do is show that humans are capable of taking an idea and manipulating it toward their own means.
It is a valid concern, however an invalid argument, I'm afraid. And really, I don't mean to downplay the severity of that issue. It is serious. It is hypocrisy, and it is deadly because it poisons peoples' minds against truth.
"yet I think I'd rather have that, than its real content being taught explicitly."
True, the scriptures deal with many things that would not be appropriate for some ages. But the fact of the matter is that the scriptures deal with real people from a real time in history in real situations. Humanity has not fundamentally changed. There was depravity and evil in the world then just as there is today. The issues addressed in scripture should be presented to a child as they are old enough to understand and deal with that issue.
As far as indoctrination, I agree, it is a slippery slope. But true faith in Jesus is not something that is passed on, inherited, or taught. The beliefs of Christianity can be taught, but saving faith is something that is extremely personal, by design, and must be arrived at individually. Grace is right, "faith is more intuitive and experiential than logic driven." Faith in Jesus is not something that is arrived at by reason, and so it cannot be taught. It must be experienced. No amount of indoctrination will produce true faith.
Thanks so much for your comment. I am more than willing to keep discussing. I'm a little tired, so I realize much of what I said here may need to be explained or clarified :) And I'd love to hear more of your thoughts.
@graceomalley
Thanks for your contribution. You helped me clarify my own thoughts :)
hi emichael. love this article very thought provoking. I remember when i was just a kid i do read bible stories, for me it is just like a story with good moral values to learn like any other stories. growing up i do believe the existence of God but I'm a rebel i don't like church. it is just after i seek for more answers and found God through Jesus. I think God moves personally, no one forced me to accept His truth.
still it is very important to introduce God to kids it will help them grow. But knowing and accepting Christ is a personal encounter it is not forced. the catholic church introduced me to God but i accepted and received God personally.
The reason the stories sound like fairy-tales is because they ARE fictional.
There is no archaeological evidence of most biblical events. There is no evidence that there were even Hebrews in Egypt. The Egyptians kept extremely good records- even if they removed all the records you would notice an entire society of another culture living as slaves in Egypt and then suddenly leaving. It would destroy the economy...
As for the Noah's ark story, ask your self: Do you REALLY believe that all of the animals on the planet got together on one boat while the rest of the earth was drowned? Was this really an all-knowing all-loving God's master plan? Kill all the evil people, even the children, and save one family with all the animals on a boat? Without eating each other? Was every microorganism on the boat as well? Was every species of non-flying insect?
Compare that myth to the myths of the ancient Greeks. Does the idea of Odysseus slaying a cyclopes REALLY sound LESS believable than a boat full of every animal on the planet?
Don't you think modern science might have better ideas about the nature of the universe than our ancient ancestors?
Kat, I can pick out a few problems with your argument, there is one major logical fallacy that you are using in it. An appeal to ignorance. This kind of argument relies on the assumption that because something hasn't been proven yet that it isn't true. The reason this kind of logic is faulty is because their could be other reasons for evidence not being apparent. You could use an inductive argument with this kind of reasoning, but at best this means you can't drop solid statements like those stories "ARE fictional". You can say that based on the lack of evidence it isn't probable that there is a god, but that is as far as that kind of argument can take you.
You ask some interesting questions, worth debating. But by bold-ing your "really"s and attacking the issue you do not strengthen your argument.
There is also the fact that you are trying to "straw man" the argument that god exists, or presenting the argument in its weakest light.
For example, you said, "Do you REALLY believe that all of the animals on the planet got together on one boat while the rest of the earth was drowned?" This is a valid question but presented in a weak way.
Politicians do this all the time when trying to pick apart other candidates. Say a governor supported a bill that allowed all schools in a certain area to buy ipads for their schools. The governors opponents might use the straw man fallacy to present the governors position in its weakest light possible by saying something like "Do you REALLY want to vote for a governor who wants to bankrupt schools by squandering their money on frivolous toys that do little to further students education?" Of course people would say no, they don't want that. But that in fact is not really what the governor is trying to do, he isn't really trying to bankrupt schools.
As for your other questions, you have some interesting ones. I would suggest balancing all the impossibilities with the possibilities to balance out your thoughts like supposing there is a god why did he kill all the evil people as well as the children? And make reasons that seem valid to you. Like maybe he killed the children because of the evil parents that were raising them and maybe he wanted to take them up to heaven with them and release them from the misery they were living or save them from potentially becoming evil and corrupt them selves.
So good points, I just think your argument could be a little more balanced/ unbiased.
@ Jhudah
Thank you so much for your comment. You are right, God speaks to us on a very personal and individual level. I agree that introducing children to Christianity and helping them understand it is a vital process. I just question the methods that have evolved. Thanks again!
@ Kat
"There is no archaeological evidence of most biblical events."
That is a pretty vague and blanket statement. There is little archeological evidence of many of our most accepted historical events. We take the word of eyewitnesses and written documentation for much of what we accept as fact.
"Do you REALLY believe that all of the animals on the planet got together on one boat while the rest of the earth was drowned?"
Yes.
"Was this really an all-knowing all-loving God's master plan? Kill all the evil people, even the children..."
Yes. Your biggest problem, I assume, is the blanket destruction of the innocent alongside the guilty. The problem with that lies in a foundational misunderstanding of the character of God and the nature of evil and justice. Which is entirely too involved to address here.
I appreciate your comment, but what you are trying for here is not debate or discussion, and you really don’t care to hear what I have to say. So I hesitate even responding other than to point out the fallacies in your argument methodology, which mikaylab93 has already done.
I will say this. The process of atheists understanding Christians and vice versa begins when BOTH sides are willing to have a rational, fair discussion rather than setting up the other for failure.
@mikaylab93
Thanks for your response. You saved me some time :)
Titen-Sxull Level 4 Commenter 12 months ago
I've written a response to your hub that can be found here: http://hubpages.com/hub/We-Need-More-Biblical-Lite